Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Ukraine war

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • If they nuke Ukraine then we should nuke them.

    WW2 taught us something and thats you have to stop them at the beginning. I dont think the Russian's want the world to end because of Vladimir Putin.

    Besides Russia doesn't have the resources to properly arm and train up a bunch of lower class, in-bred, dim wits that would make up their conscript soldiers. The smarter kids will dodge it or flat out refuse and the Russian's dont have the money or the weapons for the others. More so forcing them to join over Ukraine, at the point of a gun, will probably end up with Putin getting shot.

    This is an empty threat. They can't feed or supply the professional soldiers they have now let alone a rag ass army of conscripts.
    Last edited by CPD39; 09-21-2022, 03:10 PM.
    We shall never surrender", and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this Island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God’s good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old.
    Winston Churchill 04 June 1940

    Comment


    • Originally posted by CPD39 View Post
      If they nuke Ukraine then we should nuke them. ....
      I agree. And not due to the fact that I'm a blood-thirsty maniac (we can debate that in another thread...). Once you capitulate to a threat of that nature you have surrendered your freedom to the nation making that threat. There truly is no other option but to make it clear that if "they" launch, we will launch.

      Thing is, you have to make sure the guy on the other side believes you.

      Edit: Waiting on the "better red than dead" crowd to comment.

      Comment


      • Its not just Putin either. Theres a real neo-militaristc bunch in what passes for Russia's govt. . You might have read about how a few have been whacked recently. As always I search history for historical precedents and parameters and the one that comes to mind is the "Govt. By Assassination" that was the Jap Govt. in the 1930's. Both Govt.'s resemble/resembled gangster Mob familys more then actual Govt.'s but both were, and are, very dangerous because they write the rules as they go along, if they even follow any.

        Do remember WW2 was actually started by a IJA Colonel in Manchuria in 1937 not Adolph Hitler in Poland/1939. The Colonel just figured he'd start the fucking world war on his own because he was sure he'd have the backing of the Jap Army high command, which he got. And it was the start of a World War because America and GB backed the Chinese Nationalist Army, Stalin backed Mao and his Red Army, the Jap's fought mini-war's against the Soviets on their borders, all of this before 1 Sep 1939.

        And Next thing you know you have 60 m dead.

        Putin's Russia is actually a bunch of neo-conservative/militaristic hacks that control almost all of Russia's power and money and for these few a loss in Ukraine would mean a loss for them. And a loss in Russia doesn't mean a comfortable retirement so there is a lot of pressure on Putin right now to break this stalemate and/or come out with something resembling a win. And this bunch of whackadoo assholes really have bet their futures on a return to the glory days of the Union even tho they have no way of making it happen.

        Ergo, there is a very real chance of using a nuke or two hoping a weak American govt. will back down. We have two nitwits running the show here, at the least, and they may figure there will never be a better chance then now.

        Remember what happened to the Japs in China. China's nationalists traded space for advantage and the Japs became enmeshed in a quagmire without the conventional ability to win, which is when they resorted to the use of WMDs in the form of chemical weapons and Bio-weapons, dropping ceramic bombs full of Bubonic plague infested flea's onto Chinese towns and cities.

        I think the Russian's using a low yield nuke is a lot more possible then Russia leaving Ukraine.
        We shall never surrender", and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this Island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God’s good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old.
        Winston Churchill 04 June 1940

        Comment


        • The Russians are savages. Always have been. Always will be. Take Putin at his word. He made tactical retreats and the Ukes came flooding in like liberators, celebrating a fake victory. Now Putin has them by the short hairs exactly where he can whack them.

          I don't think he's bluffing by how the Chinese announce they want to see an immediate cease fire and discussions. That is scaring the shit out of China because they know their round eyed comrades will escalate this beyond their own tolerances. They know this isn't an empty threat from a man who seeks to go down in history as the greatest hero Mother Russia has ever known.

          The tactical retreat and the purges of his inner circle these last 3 months are giving insight to a man who eliminated all dissent leaving behind a hard-core bunch bent on victory, whatever it takes.
          "We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
          George Orwell

          Comment


          • Originally posted by CapeCodOTJ View Post


            Edit: Waiting on the "better red than dead" crowd to comment.
            They only weigh in on the other site.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by PlugUgly View Post

              They only weigh in on the other site.
              Hey Pluggedtrident, you get your recall orders from the Russian army reserves to like clean shitters yet?
              ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL. THEN GOD CREATED DESTROYER SAILORS.

              Comment


              • So now the Ukrainian govt is passing laws forbidding, under the threat of imprisonment, Ukrainians in occupied territory from obtaining Russian passports or voting in referendums or pretty much anything else administered by the Russian govt.

                All this will do is give the locals an incentive to keep the Ukrainian govt away from them and support the Russian effort.

                Stupid move

                https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitic...am-referendums
                Alas, they were Democrats, so they cheated.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by PJ807 View Post
                  So now the Ukrainian govt is passing laws forbidding, under the threat of imprisonment, Ukrainians in occupied territory from obtaining Russian passports or voting in referendums or pretty much anything else administered by the Russian govt.

                  All this will do is give the locals an incentive to keep the Ukrainian govt away from them and support the Russian effort.

                  Stupid move

                  https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitic...am-referendums
                  Its a sham referendum . Putin already stated the outcome and stated this will be sovereign Russian territory. You don't legitamize an election like that by participating. . You gave it away by your post, Its being administered by the Russian Govt. But these are supposedly independent states..

                  This is just a hurried process to claim these territories are now part of Russia and the war is to defend Mother Russia.
                  Even Russians arent buying it. There are protests around the country.
                  The Russians are bombarded with Putin propaganda yet some can see thru his lies. Whats amazing it that some Americans still buy in to his bull.
                  Last edited by PlugUgly; 09-22-2022, 11:57 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by PlugUgly View Post

                    Its a sham referendum . Putin already stated the outcome and stated this will be sovereign Russian territory. You don't legitamize an election like that by participating. . You gave it away by your post, Its being administered by the Russian Govt. But these are supposedly independent states..

                    This is just a hurried process to claim these territories are now part of Russia and the war is to defend Mother Russia.
                    Even Russians arent buying it. There are protests around the country.
                    The Russians are bombarded with Putin propaganda yet some can see thru his lies. Whats amazing it that some Americans still buy in to his bull.
                    LOL you think i made a mistake and "gave it away" by stating the fact that the referendum was being administered by Russia? You think I didnt know that or was trying to hide it and I slipped up and let the cat out of the bag?😂😂😂

                    The reality is that many in those areas DO support leaving the Ukraine thanks to seeing their duly elected president on the other side of the country get overthrown in 2014. Perhaps they feel that their vote doesnt really count in the Ukraine so why bother staying?

                    Then there's the ppl who just want to live their lives and put food on the table for their kids. If they need to get a drivers license or passport where the fuck are they supposed to go to get one? How'd you like to spend a few days traveling across disputed areas to get your drivers license or passport back in the Ukraine and then back thru the same area? You think that's an option for some mom with 3 small kids at home?

                    All this law does is begin to criminalize the regular ppl who dont give a shit one way or another and make them more likely to want to keep the Russians around.
                    Alas, they were Democrats, so they cheated.

                    Comment


                    • They probably could have negotiated to get a Russian autonomous zone. But Vlad wanted the whole enchilada. It didn't work out. Now he gets nothing,NOTHING!

                      To have any credence, there would have to be some international monitoring. And it certainly can't be run by one FOREIGN power, Russia.

                      It's a sham.

                      Comment


                      • The referendum reminds me of a great line from an old Western. The sheriff was trying to stop a lynch mod. He said, boys, we're gonna give 'em a fair trial...... then we gonna hang 'em! Suppose the Mexican army came acroos Rio Grande, occupied a part of Texas, and then called for a referendum, would that be OK?

                        [Actually, the border areas are voting Republican these days , so I guess we're safe!"]
                        Last edited by PlugUgly; 09-23-2022, 06:31 PM.

                        Comment



                        • Russia’s unsustainable equipment losses in Ukraine

                          Yahoo News
                          MICHAEL WEISS
                          September 23, 2022, 1:25 PM


                          0:38

                          3:32

                          Russia's unsustainable equipment losses in Ukraine:​ Yahoo News Explains
                          seemed prepared for
                          a decisive victory.

                          You could pick almost any military in the world — including the U.K., France and Germany — and these losses would exceed their total inventories.

                          According to the open-source database Oryx, Russia has lost 1,183 tanks and 1,304 infantry fighting vehicles since its invasion of Ukraine on Feb. 24. Even more extraordinary is that Ukraine has captured a good percentage of them: 389 tanks and 415 infantry fighting vehicles, many of which, in both categories, have already been repurposed for combat against their former owners. These numbers are just the Russian losses that have been visually confirmed; the actual figures are probably much higher.

                          Ukraine has lost equipment, too, but not nearly as much, owing to its relative lack of hardware, careful protection of what it does possess, and the defensive nature of its war thus far: 1,627 pieces, including 267 tanks and 244 infantry fighting vehicles, as per Oryx. A Ukrainian national guard serviceman stands atop a destroyed Russian tank in the Kharkiv region. (AP/Leo Correa)
                          On the face of it, Russian losses are unsustainable. But even more extraordinary is that its “elite” units are hemorrhaging the most materiel. After Ukraine’s Kharkiv counteroffensive, in which Kyiv is estimated to have retaken as many as 3,500 square miles, the 4th Guards Tank Division lost nearly 100 of its T-80U tanks. (The 4th Guards Tank Division is the only unit that operates this model.)

                          Russia is losing proportionally more of its more modern than its older tank models. For example, the T-72B3 — dating from 2010 — and T-72B3 Obr. 2016 — dating from 2016 — are two of the most common tanks lost.

                          We also know that Russia’s losses are burning through its reserve vehicles. Very old T-62M tanks have been increasingly appearing, as Russia runs out of newer, more capable tanks. Using these tanks will also exacerbate the Kremlin’s manpower shortages: The T-62 does not feature an autoloader, which automatically loads shells into the main gun, unlike more modern Russian types, so it needs a four-man crew, compared to the three-man crews required by T-72, T-80, or T-90 models. Ukrainian servicemen work on a tank abandoned by Russian troops during their retreat. (Sergey Bobok/AFP via Getty Images)
                          Significantly, the Ukrainians have captured more tanks than they have lost, according to visually confirmed data from Oryx.

                          Since Ukraine is a former Soviet bloc state, its soldiers also have the advantage of familiarity with the operation of used Russian tanks, meaning that Ukrainian crews can often just repaint them and start using them immediately.

                          Of course, some captured Russian vehicles are easier to repurpose than others; some tanks are abandoned in near-perfect condition, while others are damaged beyond repair.

                          The Ukrainian “Independence Day” parade in Kyiv featured numerous captured Russian tanks that appeared outwardly to be in working condition but had extensive damage to their engines or internal mechanics. Many of the T-80 tanks that were captured by the Ukrainians in the early days of the war apparently simply ran out of fuel. Not only is their turbine engine extremely thirsty, but driving through the rasputitsa — the heavy mud that caked Ukraine at the start of the war — lowers fuel economy even further. Many crews had to abandon their vehicles and retreat when Russia’s straining logistics corps failed to keep them supplied. People walk around destroyed Russian military vehicles installed in downtown Kyiv, Ukraine, Wednesday, Aug. 24, 2022. (AP Photo/Evgeniy Maloletka)
                          Even badly damaged armored vehicles, however, can be a useful source of spare parts, and Ukrainian soldiers also strip any working machine guns from such vehicles to use as infantry weapons. There have been many instances of Ukrainian soldiers taking captured Russian vehicles and upgrading them themselves; for example, adding thermal sights, extra armor and even Starlink satellite internet to captured BTR-82 armored personnel carriers, or by bolting an MT-12 anti-tank gun to the roof of a captured MT-LB armored personnel carrier, turning it into a makeshift but effective tank destroyer. They have also been taking components from destroyed Russian vehicles, such as BM-21 Grad multiple rocket launchers, and adding them to civilian pickup trucks to create lightly armed but highly mobile rocket-launching vehicles.

                          Russia’s sophisticated vehicles will be difficult to replace, given Western import restrictions. The Russian T-72B3 uses a “Catherine” thermal imaging system made by the French multinational defense contractor Thales. Russia imported these systems because it does not have the capability to build them domestically and because few other sources of this sophisticated equipment are available. China — notionally Russia’s ally — has scaled back the export of microprocessors necessary for Russia’s newer missiles, almost certainly because of the fear of secondary sanctions if it is seen to be feeding Putin’s war machine. A destroyed Russian MT-LB armored personnel carrier burning in a field on the outskirts of Izium, Ukraine. (Juan Barreto/AFP via Getty Images)
                          The Ukrainians have also captured a large number of sophisticated Russian electronic warfare systems. These will not only be of interest to Ukraine’s Western partners (especially the United States), but studying these systems may help the Ukrainians to counteract Russian electronic warfare efforts more effectively. These systems could also be turned back against their original owners once the Ukrainians have studied them. Again, most modern Russian equipment will operate in ways that are familiar to Ukrainian military officers used to operating ex-Soviet and Russian military equipment.

                          In the air, Russia has not fared much better, losing significant numbers of its most sophisticated and notionally most capable fixed and rotary-wing platforms. According to Oryx, at least 12 Sukhoi Su-34 strike aircraft have been destroyed. Many of these were shot down by portable anti-air systems, as Russia’s lack of precision-guided munitions has forced their aircraft to fly low and drop “dumb,” unguided bombs, bringing them into the range of these shoulder-launched, short-range, surface-to-air missiles. They’ve also lost at least 16 Ka-52 “Alligator” attack helicopters, their most sophisticated and most recent rotary-wing aircraft.​

                          Comment


                          • Russia could have offered cash for the Dombas Region. They could have assured Ukraine absolultely zero nukes and no military in those areas except that of the local govt, no larger than x amount, a trade agreement of food and other commodities and if they violate the agreement, Ukraine can then petition for NATO and EU alliances. Russia could have spent far less than what they lost, and kept a military intact.

                            Now depending on the sources, some think that Vlad wanted to take all of Ukraine intact for purposes of reconstituting part of the Soviet Union, with his eyes on smaller satellite regions as well. Then there is the globalist angle that they wanted to lure Russia in to dismantle it and push immigration on them.

                            What ever the reason, a weak russia might bite us in the ass eventually. The balance of power, the status quo will be thrown off, eventually setting up the break up of NATO states after its peak cooperation wanes, and each country starts to demand more for themselves, with no clear enemy to focus on.
                            Last edited by Dustoff262; 09-23-2022, 09:58 PM.
                            "We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
                            George Orwell

                            Comment


                            • As I said on another thread……we live in terrifying times.

                              Comment


                              • Eastern Ukraine, besides having a lot of productive farmland, is heavily Industrialized and has factories that produce a lot of important stuff like chemicals and petrochemicals, gas, machine-building, metalworking, forestry, woodworking, pulp & paper, building materials, light industry, and food processing. As well there are a lot of mines like coal and iron ore. Ukraine supplies about 1/3'rd of the worlds manganese and has a pretty good supply of titanium ores. In all it was the jewel in the crown of the old Soviet Union and its why Russia doesn't want to let it go.

                                Most of these satellite countries they have their greasy little mitts in have similiar rich deposits of mineral ore's. Most of all in the Caucuses in the various 'shitastan's.

                                Theres a shot load of oil and gas under the Black sea region around the Crimea so its not just military significance that Putin stole the Crimea and the Donbas for.
                                We shall never surrender", and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this Island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God’s good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old.
                                Winston Churchill 04 June 1940

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X