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US Navy ships rusting away. Symbol of a declining Navy?

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  • US Navy ships rusting away. Symbol of a declining Navy?

    I’ve never been in the navy but I started to notice this more and more before this article came out. While our Navy is looking for their “White Rage”, our navy ships are rusting away. I wonder how China’s navy ships look? Yeah, I’m sure rust isn’t a big deal for navy ships.😐
    Last month I visited Naval Station Norfolk, headquarters of the U.S. Atlantic Fleet. What I saw was sad: a US Navy that was rusting away.

  • #2
    That infuriates me. That is unacceptable.

    That is what Black Shoes are for. Start chipping and painting.
    Even a broken clock is right twice a day, unless it's a military clock. The above post was not approved or corrected for grammar and syntax, or checked for spelling by the forums administrators.

    Comment


    • #3
      Im not a Navy Man but I know the Ticonderoga's are an old, tho still very useful , class that was supposed to be retiring by now. We are finalizing a DD(X) class of Guided Missile DD right now but the keels havnt been laid yet.

      Its true the average age of USN ships are much older then the spanking new PLAN ships but the rust doesn't tell the entire story. Salt water is a real bitch for steel war ships no matter where. We are in the middle of a large increase of the force. Were going to be launching 2 to 3 Virginia class SSN's each year, we have something along the lines of 7 ships christening this year and 8 commissioning. Between '22 to '28 we'll be retiring 48 ships, including 9 Ticonderoga CG's placed into reserve. In 2022 we'll be decommissioning 15 ships including 7 Tico CG's while only launching 8 manned. Already were getting rid of those POS LCS's, about 7 of them, because they are basically useless.

      But Im a lot more worried about building the things and new designs then I am rust. Luckily the news gets better in upcoming years as long as we dont pull the rug out from under it. Unfortunately we are also in the middle of an entirely new triad of nuclear delivery forces and the Columbia class SSBN will eat up a lot of the USN's budget just like the B-21 stealth bomber, the F-35, and the next Gen stealth fighter will eat up a lot of USAF's. Were talking 1,700 F-35's across the 3 services with most going to USAF and plans for upwards of 150 B-21's.

      https://www.navycommissionings.org/

      So many of the PLAN's ship's are little shit ass corvettes and diesel submarines. The USN is larger by tonnage and lethality. We have a class of 10 to 15 new Frigates, the best in the world, being started now. We can't short change the navy. These ships have to be built and manned.
      "Deplorableis Extroidinaris"
      "CPD39 your a real pisser".

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by CPD39 View Post
        Im not a Navy Man but I know the Ticonderoga's are an old, tho still very useful , class that was supposed to be retiring by now. We are finalizing a DD(X) class of Guided Missile DD right now but the keels havnt been laid yet.

        Its true the average age of USN ships are much older then the spanking new PLAN ships but the rust doesn't tell the entire story. Salt water is a real bitch for steel war ships no matter where. We are in the middle of a large increase of the force. Were going to be launching 2 to 3 Virginia class SSN's each year, we have something along the lines of 7 ships christening this year and 8 commissioning. Between '22 to '28 we'll be retiring 48 ships, including 9 Ticonderoga CG's placed into reserve. In 2022 we'll be decommissioning 15 ships including 7 Tico CG's while only launching 8 manned. Already were getting rid of those POS LCS's, about 7 of them, because they are basically useless.

        But Im a lot more worried about building the things and new designs then I am rust. Luckily the news gets better in upcoming years as long as we dont pull the rug out from under it. Unfortunately we are also in the middle of an entirely new triad of nuclear delivery forces and the Columbia class SSBN will eat up a lot of the USN's budget just like the B-21 stealth bomber, the F-35, and the next Gen stealth fighter will eat up a lot of USAF's. Were talking 1,700 F-35's across the 3 services with most going to USAF and plans for upwards of 150 B-21's.

        https://www.navycommissionings.org/

        So many of the PLAN's ship's are little shit ass corvettes and diesel submarines. The USN is larger by tonnage and lethality. We have a class of 10 to 15 new Frigates, the best in the world, being started now. We can't short change the navy. These ships have to be built and manned.
        I understand what you’re saying equipment wise. But warfare is an entire spectrum. To sap the will of the enemy is also really important. Rusting ships has been an issue since the era of ironclad ships. But when you have ships rusting, it speaks to an even deeper problem. Leadership, lack of money, lack of manpower, lack of material. Which cop projects a more capable officer to the public? The 10 year fat slovenly diversity hire eating a turkey leg in public whose buttons are this close to being deadly projectiles or the 10 year similarly experienced officer that is fit and their uniform is pressed and clean? (Assuming both have the same street experience and the super clean guy wasn’t a house mouse his or her entire career?) One thing the Marines understood is appearance, appearance, appearance. The ships should be spotless. It just points to failures at so many levels.

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        • #5
          No matter what you think of our ships, China's ships are in far worst shape. You don't hear about them because you would be killed if you reported the truth. Our ships are blue water cruisers we can travel across vast oceans in large numbers. China's navy are coastal cruisers and cannot safely cross oceans. We can put an entire fleet in their back yard. Do you think China can do the same? They would lose half their fleet in the crossing.
          "Medicine is based on your own individual history and ultimately on your choice." Dr. Rand Paul

          Comment


          • #6
            First, our surface ships look like crap because they do not actually use paint on the surface hull and topsides. An apoxy is used, since it is more environmentally friendly, but does not last nearly as long. From when the first steel is cut for the hull it needs preservation. If you do not preserve the steel, it rusts and leaves streaks which look bad to say in the least. Ships work force are also undermanned. See ship collisions of 2017, both out of Japan, which were in the area of 10-15 percent undermanned, leading to a very tired crew that had to do things without the crew or parts to maintain the ships.
            As for the Tico Cruisers, their topsides, the superstructures above the steel main deck are aluminum and crack from the stress's of constantly flexing in at sea movements. They need more care, but most are still heavily used, but the Navy wants to decomm six or seven, which would take over 120 missile tubes per ship off the list of shooter capability. Not enough DDG's to make up the difference. Cruisers and DGG's in the end at sea battles, are expendable to protect the carriers and gator freighters.
            There is one LA class sub that after FOUR YEARS awaiting an overhaul just went into the yards. A Tico just came out of the yards after SIX years of upgrades. That is insane and I'll go out and say, gee what is the Navy spending money and time on that reflects all of the above? Being tender and gentle to each other. Attending all sorts of seminars for sailors to be indoctrinated to all sorts of items that have zero, I say again, zero to do with fighting at sea. So, why? So that officers can get promoted and check off a box created by the social justice warriors of think tanks and the Pentagon. A major reason why many are leaving active duty for the private sector. Treat your sailors like crap and they say adios, which leads to not enough to safely sail the ships nor enough to maintain the ship's equipment and surface hulls. In sum and substance, we've created a far less than hollow force of surface combatants. Even the submarines are somewhat affected by this mentality. The aviation side of the navy is allegedly a bit better with up rates of all platforms consistently getting higher, although that has slipped a bit since Biden took office. All in all, yes the Chinese navy ships look nice. After all is seaman Lee doesn't do his painting and chipping, it's off with his head. Perhaps we need to explore that sense of get it done and get it done right mentality?
            What do I say in the end-it is a fracking joke that the US Navy has sunk to such lows. Off with a few heads from the Academy, War Colleges, Ward Rooms and the CNO on down. We need killer warriors at sea and not politically aware sychophants.
            ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL. THEN GOD CREATED DESTROYER SAILORS.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by DBLCD View Post
              No matter what you think of our ships, China's ships are in far worst shape. You don't hear about them because you would be killed if you reported the truth. Our ships are blue water cruisers we can travel across vast oceans in large numbers. China's navy are coastal cruisers and cannot safely cross oceans. We can put an entire fleet in their back yard. Do you think China can do the same? They would lose half their fleet in the crossing.
              China doesn’t have to go halfway around the world. They just have to stay close to Continental China and keep our ships away from the South China Sea and Taiwan.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by HAPD View Post
                First, our surface ships look like crap because they do not actually use paint on the surface hull and topsides. An apoxy is used, since it is more environmentally friendly, but does not last nearly as long. From when the first steel is cut for the hull it needs preservation. If you do not preserve the steel, it rusts and leaves streaks which look bad to say in the least. Ships work force are also undermanned. See ship collisions of 2017, both out of Japan, which were in the area of 10-15 percent undermanned, leading to a very tired crew that had to do things without the crew or parts to maintain the ships.
                As for the Tico Cruisers, their topsides, the superstructures above the steel main deck are aluminum and crack from the stress's of constantly flexing in at sea movements. They need more care, but most are still heavily used, but the Navy wants to decomm six or seven, which would take over 120 missile tubes per ship off the list of shooter capability. Not enough DDG's to make up the difference. Cruisers and DGG's in the end at sea battles, are expendable to protect the carriers and gator freighters.
                There is one LA class sub that after FOUR YEARS awaiting an overhaul just went into the yards. A Tico just came out of the yards after SIX years of upgrades. That is insane and I'll go out and say, gee what is the Navy spending money and time on that reflects all of the above? Being tender and gentle to each other. Attending all sorts of seminars for sailors to be indoctrinated to all sorts of items that have zero, I say again, zero to do with fighting at sea. So, why? So that officers can get promoted and check off a box created by the social justice warriors of think tanks and the Pentagon. A major reason why many are leaving active duty for the private sector. Treat your sailors like crap and they say adios, which leads to not enough to safely sail the ships nor enough to maintain the ship's equipment and surface hulls. In sum and substance, we've created a far less than hollow force of surface combatants. Even the submarines are somewhat affected by this mentality. The aviation side of the navy is allegedly a bit better with up rates of all platforms consistently getting higher, although that has slipped a bit since Biden took office. All in all, yes the Chinese navy ships look nice. After all is seaman Lee doesn't do his painting and chipping, it's off with his head. Perhaps we need to explore that sense of get it done and get it done right mentality?
                What do I say in the end-it is a fracking joke that the US Navy has sunk to such lows. Off with a few heads from the Academy, War Colleges, Ward Rooms and the CNO on down. We need killer warriors at sea and not politically aware sychophants.
                I’ve been saying this. I promise our enemies don’t have Diversity, Inclusion, Equity officers.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by DBLCD View Post
                  No matter what you think of our ships, China's ships are in far worst shape. You don't hear about them because you would be killed if you reported the truth. Our ships are blue water cruisers we can travel across vast oceans in large numbers. China's navy are coastal cruisers and cannot safely cross oceans. We can put an entire fleet in their back yard. Do you think China can do the same? They would lose half their fleet in the crossing.
                  "China's navy are coastal cruisers and cannot safely cross oceans."

                  BINGO

                  They know how to put on a show but that's all it is. Smoke and mirrors. China is setting up ports in Africa to help extend their reach and save their aging fleet. I remember reading a story where they lost a few naval ships on the short trip to Africa. The Indian ocean kicked their ass. Their Navy should be renamed the Chinese Coast Guard.
                  "I may not be Donald Trump now, but just you wait; if I don't make it, my children will." Barack Hussein Obama, 2004

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DeOppLib View Post

                    "China's navy are coastal cruisers and cannot safely cross oceans."

                    BINGO

                    They know how to put on a show but that's all it is. Smoke and mirrors. China is setting up ports in Africa to help extend their reach and save their aging fleet. I remember reading a story where they lost a few naval ships on the short trip to Africa. The Indian ocean kicked their ass. Their Navy should be renamed the Chinese Coast Guard.
                    Don't ever sell the PLAN's navy short. Oh yeah, their ships can travel far distances and even cross oceans with their own logistics trail from their Belt & Road ports that are seemingly all over the globe these days. And there are the nations that nod when Chy-na says, we need fuel food and medicine. Give it up-they nod.
                    We only have 27 cruisers. Take away the six to be decommed, several in deep update yard periods, you have about 15. DDG's-different story. 69 Arleigh Burke class DDG's in commission. Take away those in deep update yard periods and those newly commissioned and you have about 55.
                    The Chy-neeze Navy can do a lot of damage to anyone who takes them on, especially since they will fight closer to home than the US Navy. Local allies like Japan, SK, India and Oz as well as say Malaysia and a few others will add to the US forces. But, this is a away game for US.
                    As for carriers, we have 11. One is the Ford which is just about ready to deploy, but first had to cannibalize the USS Kennedy CVN-80 being built, for parts. Read that twice-cannibalize a ship in the process of being built so that Ford has enough parts to go to a deployment. That is how bad our parts makers are behind schedule. Parts matter, big time.
                    Chy-na's Navy is a blue water navy. Went so far as near Hawaii lately with Russian navy ships & subs. DO NOT SELL THEM SHORT.
                    ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL. THEN GOD CREATED DESTROYER SAILORS.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      With technology the way it is today and evolving faster than we can keep up, a Navy is really good against an adversary who cannot match it. But ships are still very vulnerable.

                      You don't have to sink a ship to win a naval battle. You just have to render it's eyes and ears useless. Also, you don't have to sink a carrier. Just hit it in the right place to make it list more than 10 degrees and you can't launch, use the elevators, refuel, re-arm, retrieve aircraft and 1/4 of your ships company will be fighting fires, floods, recovering the injured and so on.

                      Can china, Russia, NoKo do it? Yup. You bet they can. A weaker but still capable adversary will focus his tactics on using our might against us.

                      To help you understand their method, in Vietnam the enemy harassed our overwhelming forces beyond measure. Just look at the amount of aircraft they knocked down. The radioman and corpsman were the ones they wanted to engage. Seeing your medics killed demoralized the troops. Snipers did not want to kill but draw out more rescuers to shoot at.

                      During a protest at city hall, an old timer tells me as soon as these loons get too close, whack one of them as hard as you can across the knees. He will go down and two of his buds will carry him away. One swing and you take out 3. That's how your enemy thinks.
                      "We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
                      George Orwell

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by HAPD View Post

                        Don't ever sell the PLAN's navy short. Oh yeah, their ships can travel far distances and even cross oceans with their own logistics trail from their Belt & Road ports that are seemingly all over the globe these days. And there are the nations that nod when Chy-na says, we need fuel food and medicine. Give it up-they nod.
                        We only have 27 cruisers. Take away the six to be decommed, several in deep update yard periods, you have about 15. DDG's-different story. 69 Arleigh Burke class DDG's in commission. Take away those in deep update yard periods and those newly commissioned and you have about 55.
                        The Chy-neeze Navy can do a lot of damage to anyone who takes them on, especially since they will fight closer to home than the US Navy. Local allies like Japan, SK, India and Oz as well as say Malaysia and a few others will add to the US forces. But, this is a away game for US.
                        As for carriers, we have 11. One is the Ford which is just about ready to deploy, but first had to cannibalize the USS Kennedy CVN-80 being built, for parts. Read that twice-cannibalize a ship in the process of being built so that Ford has enough parts to go to a deployment. That is how bad our parts makers are behind schedule. Parts matter, big time.
                        Chy-na's Navy is a blue water navy. Went so far as near Hawaii lately with Russian navy ships & subs. DO NOT SELL THEM SHORT.

                        "Chy-na's Navy is a blue water navy. Went so far as near Hawaii lately with Russian navy ships & subs. DO NOT SELL THEM SHORT."


                        Nonsense, go back and check your source. China and Russia conducted joint exercises around Japan in the Tsugaru straits, not exactly blue water. I believe they started with 10 ships and quickly lost two who had to turn back. Some of you are quick to sell our military short I don't. Do we hav problems, absolutely. So does our enemy.
                        "I may not be Donald Trump now, but just you wait; if I don't make it, my children will." Barack Hussein Obama, 2004

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Maybe the buck should stop here

                          Act like prey and you will surely be hunted.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DeOppLib View Post


                            "Chy-na's Navy is a blue water navy. Went so far as near Hawaii lately with Russian navy ships & subs. DO NOT SELL THEM SHORT."


                            Nonsense, go back and check your source. China and Russia conducted joint exercises around Japan in the Tsugaru straits, not exactly blue water. I believe they started with 10 ships and quickly lost two who had to turn back. Some of you are quick to sell our military short I don't. Do we hav problems, absolutely. So does our enemy.
                            My sources are active duty officers and retired flag types. When we have lunch together it is quite the bitch session. They know the people and platform issues and what we are up against. No need to once again as we did at Iron Bottom Sound, be over confident up until the point the shooting starts. Gonna be a lot of surprises and not all good.
                            ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL. THEN GOD CREATED DESTROYER SAILORS.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I would have to call the PLAN a "blue water navy" now. IN fact I'd say they are copying the USN in both platform types and capabilities. Their type 055 DD is very good. Maybe not as good as the newer Burkes but still very good. We have better radars and battle management systems, our new SPY-6 Naval radar is the best in the world But the PLAN is putting a good AESA radar on this new DD too and is actually bigger then either our Burke's or Tico's. As far as I know they only have 8 of them so far but are building at least two a year.

                              They are building aircraft carriers comparable to Ford class's. I think overall, looking 20 years ahead, they want 6 of them. This would give them a very credible naval structure. Remember were split between two ocean's and a couples sea's. I'd have to agree with Hap regarding our complacency and lack of discipline, two attributes that have haunted us in the past. Since Reagan days we have had a steady loss of shipyard and ship building capacity. Right now almost all our ship building centers on USN combat ship's and we only have about 6 able to produce anything. The Chinese have the largest ship building Industry in the world. The two, commercial and military, are always connected. Even our's were and the Chinese yards are mostly state owned and operated. The private yards dance to the Govt.'s tune as well. This is an autocratic, communist Dictatorship were talking about here. They say your working 14 hour days ; Your working 14 hour days.

                              Theres plenty of room in the gulag's.

                              While China is basically copying the USN force structure-wise their goals are different. Their main goal is Asian hegemony and the protection of sub continent and Middle east/Africa trade routes. Long term they wish a world wide power projection ability with forward basing available. Basically a cope of the USN. A long but worthwhile read https://ndupress.ndu.edu/Portals/68/...inese-navy.pdf
                              "Deplorableis Extroidinaris"
                              "CPD39 your a real pisser".

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