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NYC to Test No-Police Mental Health Crisis Response in Harlem

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  • #16
    I think we're missing that this could be the start of something big...

    Why not marriage counselors to domestics,

    Why not insurance adjusters to car accidents and for burglaries and property crimes,

    Why not send a Judge and DA to robberies and assaults, so they can DP most and put the rest on Probation,

    The potential is to stop all adverse police contacts

    Make all police into community feel-good ambasadors...

    Let them dance to rap music on shop countertops...

    Let them play stickball in the streets...

    Let them drive around in LGBTQRSTUV rainbow painted RMP's

    In fact, change RMP to RMDN, as in Radio Motor Do Nuffin

    If everyone is catering to various community needs, no one can take an adverse 61

    Crime stats will plummet

    Kum-Bi-Ya

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by bohica9 View Post
      I think we're missing that this could be the start of something big...

      Why not marriage counselors to domestics,

      Why not insurance adjusters to car accidents and for burglaries and property crimes,

      Why not send a Judge and DA to robberies and assaults, so they can DP most and put the rest on Probation,

      The potential is to stop all adverse police contacts

      Make all police into community feel-good ambasadors...

      Let them dance to rap music on shop countertops...

      Let them play stickball in the streets...

      Let them drive around in LGBTQRSTUV rainbow painted RMP's

      In fact, change RMP to RMDN, as in Radio Motor Do Nuffin

      If everyone is catering to various community needs, no one can take an adverse 61

      Crime stats will plummet

      Kum-Bi-Ya MFers

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by bohica9 View Post
        I think we're missing that this could be the start of something big...

        Why not marriage counselors to domestics,

        Why not insurance adjusters to car accidents and for burglaries and property crimes,

        Why not send a Judge and DA to robberies and assaults, so they can DP most and put the rest on Probation,

        The potential is to stop all adverse police contacts

        Make all police into community feel-good ambasadors...

        Let them dance to rap music on shop countertops...

        Let them play stickball in the streets...

        Let them drive around in LGBTQRSTUV rainbow painted RMP's

        In fact, change RMP to RMDN, as in Radio Motor Do Nuffin

        If everyone is catering to various community needs, no one can take an adverse 61

        Crime stats will plummet

        Kum-Bi-Ya
        The number one reason why people dislike the police is because we show up and tell people NO. In a distant second, another reason is because we are the punitive arm of government. We can restrict the freedom of individuals, we can issue summonses with substantial fines, and we have just as much hatred or affection that those have for us. Until they get police officers out of the revenue business, and focus on crime, you will have these wacky attempts to normalize every social disorder and problem. It will not work, it never has before but the opposite effect is to burden the police departments with more responsibility.
        Last edited by Dustoff262; 02-23-2021, 06:46 PM.
        "We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
        George Orwell

        Comment


        • Washroom Attendant
          Washroom Attendant commented
          Editing a comment
          Remember on 9/12/01, everyone thought cops were Gods.

          That quickly ended when the first summons was written.

        • delury
          delury commented
          Editing a comment
          God knows how much OT was made giving DAT's for smoking a joint on the streets of NYC. This was SOP for some specialized units and the DT's loved it. Then there was Red Light OT. Revenue was the game, no questions asked.

      • #19
        I have never been on an EDP Job where a Fireman/Paramedic/EMT would make entry before the Police. The Hose Pullers always entered after we got everything under control. This will be disastrous, people are going to get hurt or worse, dead.
        Liberalism is a serious mental disorder

        Comment


        • #20
          Originally posted by Truth View Post
          I have never been on an EDP Job where a Fireman/Paramedic/EMT would make entry before the Police. The Hose Pullers always entered after we got everything under control. This will be disastrous, people are going to get hurt or worse, dead.
          That's okay, there's plenty of room around NYC for them to put up a memorial wall to murdered social workers. Hardly costs the city anything!

          Comment


          • #21
            This is a good change and should be welcomed. It is about 36 years too late. This is where they should have gone after the Eleanor Bumpers incident.

            we simply are not equipped to deal with these folks. And the result is we wind up lighting them up as we are trained to do when we perceive a threat of DPF.

            poor Sullivan had to go through hell after Bumpers and there has been many more after including the Sergeant in the 43.

            remeber all the BS training we got after Bumpers? The shepherds crook, the fire extinguishers, the shields, and sergeants for the first time got tasers. Because inspections would come into the precinct and the equipment was one of the things they checked, the RMP guy took all the equipment out and put them in those large laundry bags and kept them locked up. When inspections came they were put into the cars for the inspection and our PCT never flunked, but when we needed the equipment it was not around. ESU sometimes would show up and body bag the EDP but more likely than. It they took a long time to show.

            Comment


            • #22
              Originally posted by Saturn4147 View Post
              This is a good change and should be welcomed. It is about 36 years too late. This is where they should have gone after the Eleanor Bumpers incident.

              we simply are not equipped to deal with these folks. And the result is we wind up lighting them up as we are trained to do when we perceive a threat of DPF.

              poor Sullivan had to go through hell after Bumpers and there has been many more after including the Sergeant in the 43.

              remeber all the BS training we got after Bumpers? The shepherds crook, the fire extinguishers, the shields, and sergeants for the first time got tasers. Because inspections would come into the precinct and the equipment was one of the things they checked, the RMP guy took all the equipment out and put them in those large laundry bags and kept them locked up. When inspections came they were put into the cars for the inspection and our PCT never flunked, but when we needed the equipment it was not around. ESU sometimes would show up and body bag the EDP but more likely than. It they took a long time to show.
              I disagree with you. We are the EDP experts. A NYPD have more experience dealing with EDPs than most so called mental health professionals. As far as training, it’s changed since the days of Bumpers. Most of us have more training in talking down people ( concentrated in that one area) than most mental health professionals. This includes real actors of portray the EDP in the scenarios.

              We are the experts. Name another job where they see the EDP outside of a controlled environment as much as the average NYPD cop.

              Comment


              • Dustoff262
                Dustoff262 commented
                Editing a comment
                +1. What Saturn fails to understand is that when an EDP uses DPF, he will use it no matter who responds. It could be a relative, an EMT, a social worker or a cop. If that EDP is set on causing someone or themselves harm, then the police officer, with all his resources that ESU brings, all the bosses, and phone calls to the executives on duty who can make the go, no go decisions , are a much more prepared department that can resolve an EDP problem than a social worker.

                But let the city try their experiment. By the end of the year it will return to the police department.
                Last edited by Dustoff262; 02-24-2021, 09:30 AM.

              • Saturn4147
                Saturn4147 commented
                Editing a comment
                I have been off the job a while so cannot speak to what the training is. Both you and dust off miss the big picture here. If ESU is truly responding to these calls in timely manner then great, they are the EDP experts and everything usually ends well.

                Unfortunately it is the calls where ESU is not there that go down hill. And it does not have to involve DPF.

                Let’s take Gardner, EDP for resisting arrest. No DPF used, great take down but dead, panteleo fired nothing but grief.

                Sgt Barry 43 pct did everything they were supposed to do. EDP comes at cops with knife entirely justified in doing what he did. Result indicted, grief results for all.

                Name a job where folks go to a scene do everything they are supposed to do and wind up getting screwed and criminally charged for doing their jobs.

                Got a better way to do it? Go for it. Less cops in crap.

                And I have also seen these small cops in my day, I believe you have more of them these days. Both males and females. I do not believe any training is going to help them take anyone down

            • #23
              Well...that didn't last long:

              Manhattan, NY
              02/24/2021 11:44:00
              Barricaded Edp. 409 E 120th St, 25th Pct. 25 Sgt requesting ESU regards a barricaded EDP..

              Comment


              • #24
                Only thing I hated more than EDP jobs was the dreaded 10-10 Missing.

                Comment


                • Saturn4147
                  Saturn4147 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Always came right as my got my chicken Parm ready to go to SH or at end of tour when circling SH like a vulture.

              • #25
                You know where else mental health people respond to EDP’s without police assistance?

                Mental hospitals.

                Comment


                • Dustoff262
                  Dustoff262 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Wrong. The police are called there each time their security refuse to engage the patient, which is about 85% of the time.

              • #26

                • #22.1
                  Dustoff262 commented
                  02-23-2021, 10:45 PM
                  +1. What Saturn fails to understand is that when an EDP uses DPF, he will use it no matter who responds. It could be a relative, an EMT, a social worker or a cop. If that EDP is set on causing someone or themselves harm, then the police officer, with all his resources that ESU brings, all the bosses, and phone calls to the executives on duty who can make the go, no go decisions , are a much more prepared department that can resolve an EDP problem than a social worker.

                  But let the city try their experiment. By the end of the year it will return to the police department.
                  Last edited by Dustoff262; 02-24-2021, 08:30 AM.+ More Options

                • #22.2
                  Saturn4147 commented
                  02-24-2021, 08:22 AM
                  I have been off the job a while so cannot speak to what the training is. Both you and dust off miss the big picture here. If ESU is truly responding to these calls in timely manner then great, they are the EDP experts and everything usually ends well.

                  Unfortunately it is the calls where ESU is not there that go down hill. And it does not have to involve DPF.

                  Let’s take Gardner, EDP for resisting arrest. No DPF used, great take down but dead, panteleo fired nothing but grief.

                  Sgt Barry 43 pct did everything they were supposed to do. EDP comes at cops with knife entirely justified in doing what he did. Result indicted, grief results for all.

                  Name a job where folks go to a scene do everything they are supposed to do and wind up getting screwed and criminally charged for doing their jobs.

                  Got a better way to do it? Go for it. Less cops in crap.

                  And I have also seen these small cops in my day, I believe you have more of them these days. Both males and females. I do not believe any training is going to help them take anyone down

                Guys, if you want a dialogue then hit the reply button rather than the comment button please.

                About the training. It had changed greatly in the past 5 years or so. Again, training like CIT is now standard where actors do the role playing , people with mental health issues come in, and frankly we learn from other cops. And we teach the experts too.

                The NYPD now has support groups for the NYPD officers who have family members with Autistic and/or mental issues. Heck, a sergeant in my CIT class was on one of those anti-depression medications with full duty status.

                That’s how much things have changed.

                That CIT training is about the fourth or fifth EDP training course I had to go thru .


                I am also familiar with both our training and the training the average social worker or psychologists get in dealing with EDPs in uncontrolled environments . We actually have better training than they do when it comes to dealing with them in an uncontrolled environment. The average NYPD cop has more experience than people with PHDs in psychology in that environment. Don’t sell your experience short.

                Yes, ESU has the tools and the training to use those tools and the only people with more training in EDPs is hostage negotiations. But the average cop has more EDP training and experience than most so called professionals.

                As one Navy SEAL once said” Navy SEALs are not so great, it’s just that everyone else sucks”

                Comment


                • delury
                  delury commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Sleeping on a board the night before the physical to make the 5'7" ended in 1973. I don't know how tall Pantaleo was but he got that fat POS down. He was thrown under the bus but I hope he will be re-instated with full back pay.
                  Last edited by delury; 02-24-2021, 07:22 PM.

                • Dustoff262
                  Dustoff262 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  The reason why we comment is to keep the conversation in one place. By quoting, only one part of the post is carried over. Thus you have a floating conversation out of sync with the rest of the thread. Give it a try and you'll understand what happens.

              • #27
                Originally posted by Krepke View Post
                You know where else mental health people respond to EDP’s without police assistance?

                Mental hospitals.
                👏👏👏(Slow clap) And there he is. So in mental hospitals, the environment is controlled. Not so in the street or a house, where they could have just about anything as a weapon. But if you were a cop you would know that. And if you were a cop and didn’t know that, shame on you.

                Comment


                • #28

                  • #26.2
                    Dustoff262 commented
                    02-24-2021, 06:38 PM
                    The reason why we comment is to keep the conversation in one place. By quoting, only one part of the post is carried over. Thus you have a floating conversation out of sync with the rest of the thread. Give it a try and you'll understand what happens.
                  it keeps it one place but makes it hard to respond to your comment.

                  Just quote and reply so it can be a conversation. Instead a cut and paste session has to be done and you don’t know I am responding to you unless you are looking for it.


                  please just quote and a reply .

                  Comment

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